January 17, 2000: Devil Booth(A Retrospective)

[Tired Mama]

are you all really saying people got "banned" for anything other than:
-being explicitily hateful towards radical feminist women
-being pro-porn and pro-prostitution

that's like... a damn lie. everyone that got banned, got so for doing either of those things.

A-hem, allow me to submit for consideration... The last exchange I had on this forum with my previous account:


Before any attempt to log in was met with this lovely message:


I fully expect that this account will only survive long enough to point this fact out. But let it be known for the record, I do not, have never, and will never do anything on this forum to break it's cardinal rules. Disagreement is not an attack. Debate is not an attack.

But I was banned anyway. So what message does that send?

[Z6IIAB]

People can go read the full thread and figure out for themselves that you, Immo, is once again trying to take things out of context because you're upset we don't think men can be women. See ya.

[Tired Mama]

People can go read the full thread and figure out for themselves that you, Immo, is once again trying to take things out of context because you're upset we don't think men can be women. See ya.

Even if you were 100% correct- which I must insist you are not- There is nothing in the two rules:

-being explicitily hateful towards radical feminist women
-being pro-porn and pro-prostitution

that in any way applies to either taking things out of context or being butthurt. And that's the only point I'm trying to make here.

I didn't break the rules but I was banned because I disagreed on a subject and didn't immediately shut up about it.

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

Okay, not to wade in or be overly helpful, but for anyone else looking for the thread that has Mama Immo's posts, here it is:

"PSA: Do Not Feed The Trolls"

I am not linking it because with that title you can find it. (Just wanted to give this as a time save... It took me a while and if I didn't have a lot of time today I would not have found the source...)

That thread alone does not give the entire story or feel for the environment of the forum that caused the banning of Mama Immo and others. You might also want to read "Why can't human beings change sex?" and others around that late May to June time line.

In my opinion I am not sure Mama Immo's ban would have happened without a whole lot of other posters being such trolls at the time. I think there was reasonable discussion potential with those posts and they promoted a different point of view. That being said, I am not sure that I read every post of MI - especially because problematic posts get removed. I fully understand why posts need to be removed, but once they have been deleted it really throws a loop into understanding other posts that are made in response to the problem post.

Do people get banned erroneously? I am sure it can happen. Is this a moderated forum? - oh heck yes. If it was not it would soon become a very unpleasant place primarily from the backlash trolling of the extremely vocal transfocused community.

Does strong moderation influence discussion. Yes. For the enhancement of the forum but also unfortunately to the detriment of some discussions.

Tired Mama - it remains to be seen if you will be banned again. Maybe you just got a time out. Maybe without the whole troll fest that happened in the other thread you won't get swept up with the actual garbage and tossed out.

If you just start posting thoughtful things and leave the whole 'I got banned for the wrong reason' issue - (no doubt a sore point - no doubt a tinder box potential of flame (Yes you did get banned for the right reason... No I did not...)) - then we will probably be able to read your thoughts in the future.

[Z6IIAB]

Is this a moderated forum? - oh heck yes. If it was not it would soon become a very unpleasant place primarily from the backlash trolling of the extremely vocal transfocused community.

Yes, like the old forum used to be before being terminated because Tat didn't wanna host a forum that was pro-porn and pro-prostitution. And like this new forum would turn out to be as you can all see from the hot topics in General Discussion and others hot topics that were made in 2018-2019.

Which you should already know, because you were there for some of that. But who could blame you, it's been 2 years anyways. That's why I made a previous reply in this same topic we are having this discussion right now with about every topic you mentioned yourself, and a couple more, including the Community Guidelines. So if you haven't checked all of those links already, (re)read them maybe.

I didn't break the rules but I was banned because I disagreed on a subject and didn't immediately shut up about it.

Ok, I didn't wanna waste my time with you, Immo, because you're obviously just pulling the same uncalled shit you did in "PSA: Don't Feed The Trolls". But since even people who were there for the discussion seem to be having a hard time remembering it, I guess I'll prove to you all why Immo got banned fair and square:

Immo conveniently didn't print and posted when I mentioned the Community Guidelines, which reads:

"[Tatsuya's] priority here [...] is [...] to foster an environment that's friendly to radical feminists and people who support radical feminism."

If you had took the time to click that link at the time and read it further it also says:

"If I [Tatsuya Ishida] determine you're not here in good faith, that you're here to undermine these goals, I [he] will deactivate your account."

So that's why you got banned, Immo: you condoned trolls ("And I don't think those people are trolls"), people harassing radical feminists, calling us "terfs" and "transphobes", making this an unfriendly environment for us. You worked to undermine the goals of this community, and by refusing to acknowldge their behaviour as the harassment and trolling that it was, you were cleary not here in good faith.

If you disagree with that, take it up to Tat. I think it's transparent to everyone to see that you're right: you were not banned for being explicity hateful towards radical feminists or defending porn and prostitution. You were banned for condoning the people who were doing that.

And if someone is *Tired* here, it's me. I'm honestly tired, if you wanna keep lying about your bs concern trolling where you did nothing but condone harassment, get out.

If you wanna actually be part of the community and comment on the webcomic without antagonizing radical feminists, you're welcome back.

In sum: Immo (aka Mama immo aka Tired Immo) did nothing but support the harassers of radical feminists in the past, and hence was not here in good faith, which is grounds for banning. Immo's complaints are based on false premises and dishonest retelling of what happened.

[Tired Mama]

Can I ask, honestly, in sincere good faith...

Where is the line in the sand? Because it seems my definition of harassment is wildly different from yours. Is the topic of transphobia forbidden? And if so... why is that not explicitly stated in the rules? I am legitimately just trying to exist in this forum and finding it a minefield and I say "i" and "me" because I can't speak for anyone else's experience but I don't mean to make this strictly about me personally.

What I'm trying to address is the forum as a whole and the manner in which it "greets" outsiders.

[Russly]

The condoning line is certainly what this comes down to. For example I come here in good faith I would hope. (I have a Crimney picture, when he says "you weren't always a devil girl" that may end up my profile. If I'm correct Slick remains his friend.) As someone who's here as a virtually former porn user I simply take a good hard look at both sides.

And so I arrive at my point that condoning these people is literally why we have the ACAB narrative. But wait, Sunday's strip was a civil war with maybe one word referencing the sexual aspect in today's strip. The comic lives again. So instead of pushing the envelope too far in either pro porn or anti porn, I prefer to be like the dragon and walk the line. "Psst, play both sides." Kudos to whoever knows the strip that's from.

I could play D Man's advocate and discuss the people I know who rip off pedos using semi fake Only Fans. I could be as poetic as Fuschia and draw the pain of slavery throughout history. One Piece's thousand chapter dropped on the first and they do discuss some pretty serious implications about finding freedom.

Perhaps I'm not quite worthy of Tat's presence, but at least I've stuck around thus far? It's like asking what about female to male-- a double edged sword of Me Too basically being a global Samurai Jack's The Scotsman's Wife. Makes me think of People Of The Lie at this point. Basically a matter of deciding on the moderated or unmoderated forum.

-Russly

[Z6IIAB]

The condoning line is certainly what this comes down to.

yes.

I come here in good faith I would hope.

As far as I can tell, I think you do come here in good faith.

As someone who's here as a virtually former porn user I simply take a good hard look at both sides.[...] So instead of pushing the envelope too far in either pro porn or anti porn, I prefer to be like the dragon and walk the line. "Psst, play both sides." Kudos to whoever knows the strip that's from.

I don't believe you can play both sides when it comes to the sexual exploitative industries, but I guess you could be "on the fence", especially "as a virtually former porn user" who, I hope, is trying to understand why porn and prostitution are harmful and misogynistic. Baby steps.

If I don't adress the rest of your response (ACAB is what?? and catfishing pedophiles is what??), it's because... I didn't get your point, but I don't really care either, so don't feel obligated to elaborate on that because of me.

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

Can I ask, honestly, in sincere good faith...

Where is the line in the sand? Because it seems my definition of harassment is wildly different from yours. Is the topic of transphobia forbidden? And if so... why is that not explicitly stated in the rules? I am legitimately just trying to exist in this forum and finding it a minefield and I say "i" and "me" because I can't speak for anyone else's experience but I don't mean to make this strictly about me personally.

What I'm trying to address is the forum as a whole and the manner in which it "greets" outsiders.

This thread has focused me on re-reading all the hot topic items in the forum. One I particularly find interesting is the "So, what should I expect?"http://www.sinfest.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9

I have only thoroughly read up to page 2 so far, but it has reminded me already of the way these discussion tend to go. I skipped around that fire-storm and found some real coals still burning.

Tired Mama, I really want to know. What is your definition of transphobia? Who in your mind is an 'outsider' to this forum?
I am not trying to throw gas on a fire. I really want to know - but I also know that probably this is going to combust.
Because if you read the very last post of "So, what should I expect?" - I speculate that this thread is going to end up a whole lot like that thread. - Not saying because of you personally Tired Mama. I just think that any post that wants to talk about anything trans is going to stir up the crab bucket.

And I just want to know should I go ahead and get the popcorn popping...

[Z6IIAB]

I prefer to be like the dragon and walk the line. "Psst, play both sides." Kudos to whoever knows the strip that's from.

I'll accept your kudos, cause I got your strip.

[Z6IIAB]

And I just want to know should I go ahead and get the popcorn popping...

oh, what I already said on the matter was it on my behalf, lol. unless someone else keeps on answering Immo on that subject, you will have a very boring time eating popcorn hehe.

[Russly]

Right, I can only go on my experience here but I went cold turkey and after long enough went on kind of a Page 3 principle-- if a pop up (or say, a porn vid in a church service) rears its head I'm at least in the know perhaps, being on the fence and all that. Sort of for protection even? I only point out that the immediate cessation I went through perhaps came with witnessing said being "harmful and misogynistic" with these industries. To consider me unfamiliar with what that refers to is improbable. Having got the "play both sides" from the Dragon I guess we'll have to take Tat up on that hahaha. The Sisterhood isn't immune from the occasional pumpkin spice joke!

The other classic Sunday strip is God when he throws meteors and aliens at Slick after he tells him to bring it on of course. And btw, in case nobody's caught on yet, my secret is time management with threads. I'm the type of person who uses Imgur and not Reddit.

Besides, if the classic issue is reconciliation of the pre 'freakout' comic with the current form it has taken, look no further because perhaps it hasn't really changed after all. Just grown into itself once it acquired more of a plotline, and feminism wins that award. Now topics such as race and politics -are- making their way back into its mainstream with a clear understanding of... fourth wave feminism? Post corona feminism? The comic just got taken seriously after long enough.

Anyway, point is the law of mass media that the fringe tends toward the mainstream applies within the comic itself even. First Xanthe was a fringe character and now is nothing short of central, first this Trump era civil war was a drone with nice hair and now Sam's robot is being rebooted. And yeah, when I ramble I'm good to not clarify too much. Indeed, lest more rants occur!

-Russly

[Z6IIAB]

I only point out that the immediate cessation I went through perhaps came with witnessing said being "harmful and misogynistic" with these industries. To consider me unfamiliar with what that refers to is improbable.

Cool