welcome to the fest

This latest strand was hilarious. Nicely done. Slicky and popcorn to see the show. The tears as fuel.

Ingenious.

I don't always agree with Tat but everyone has to admit this was well done.

Who knew there would be such an uproar to Twitter Freedom? Actually, we all did, right?

This is probably the closest to Slick and Xanthe being on the same side as I've ever seen.

-Russly

Russly wrote: ↑

Mon May 02, 2022 2:06 pm

This is probably the closest to Slick and Xanthe being on the same side as I've ever seen.

-Russly

That's not true. She once made a legitimate effort to make him an 'ally'. He tried but he ended up letting her down. Finding the exact strips involved would be a huge chore but I recall her being very crestfallen about his failure to live up to her standards.

ZozoCitizen wrote: ↑

Mon May 09, 2022 5:57 pm

Russly wrote: ↑

Mon May 02, 2022 2:06 pm

This is probably the closest to Slick and Xanthe being on the same side as I've ever seen.

-Russly

That's not true. She once made a legitimate effort to make him an 'ally'. He tried but he ended up letting her down. Finding the exact strips involved would be a huge chore but I recall her being very crestfallen about his failure to live up to her standards.

Really? Oh, please, please find it. Do you have a close year? Now I have to see it.

Okay I found it. It was back in 2013. Man. Memories. Close to when I left. I think I turned my back on Tat in 2014. Reading these old comics is an interesting window into the philosophical climate of the times. "Porn is a way that men oppress women" sounds pretty funny now that Onlyfans exists.

This subplot is foreshadowed on 2012-05-05, where Xanthe checks up Slick's behavior and shows interest in him. Not necessarily romantic interest, but seems to want to know 'how bad it is' and if he can be 'fixed'.

The subplot starts on 2013-03-23 where Slick discovers being an SJW and is rewarded for it with praise. Ya know, because no one foresaw the rise of the lunatic Woke and it was considered 'the right side of history' back then. Oh how time makes a fool of us all.

It continues on 2013-03-26 with Slick trying to socialize with Xanthe a little. She cold shuts him down immediately but her later reaction definitely betrays her true feelings.

On 2013-03-31, Xanthe spots Sleaze in the crowd of men.

Finally on 2013-04-03 she reveals that his betrayal hurt and demoralized her.

This continues on 2013-04-17.

I belong to the school of thought that all the characters in Sinfest are symbolic for real world demographics. At least that's how it turned out. Even if Tat's work didn't start that way. The only 'bad' men portrayed are usually disposable extras. If Crim is the rare 'good' man and Squig is the dumb man, Slick is the everyman. He has both evil and good aspects. He wants to be good but is often misguided by others, by his own desires, and by misfortune. Xanthe, the embodiment of the strong feminine ideal, wanted to believe in him. If the everyman can be redeemed, then anyone could. Which is why she focuses on him.
Of course if we view them as individual characters then it comes across as Xanthe being attracted to Slick, wanting to reform him, he lets her down, and her prospects of dating him are crushed.

That Onlyfans line though....

Anyway I'm not sure I can consider that the 'closest' because it was a subplot fated to end with their disagreement, whereas here technically they seem to be in agreement currently. That's the difference to me.

Shipping Xanthe and Slick is the classic conundrum because it's so damn obvious from the very beginning -except- for Monique basically being to him what Amber is to Crim. Not sure what this means.

-Russly

Russly wrote: ↑

Wed May 11, 2022 4:20 pm

That Onlyfans line though....

Anyway I'm not sure I can consider that the 'closest' because it was a subplot fated to end with their disagreement, whereas here technically they seem to be in agreement currently. That's the difference to me.

Shipping Xanthe and Slick is the classic conundrum because it's so damn obvious from the very beginning -except- for Monique basically being to him what Amber is to Crim. Not sure what this means.

-Russly

Am I wrong? It's men who're being taken advantage of these days. It's pathetic. I have nothing but pity for those poor foolish men who throw their money away on e-thots. Their lives are so devoid of love and their social skills are so underdeveloped that they'll take anything they can get. Like abused dogs licking the boot that kicks them. Porn is free. They pay because those men are after affection. A sliver of it. A speck. They don't even care if it's insincere. They're some of the saddest people on the planet.
I can only shake my head when Tat's comics frame that kind of man as a creep and a villain. Can't win for losing. Insult to injury.

You might be right. This is the first time Slick and Xanthe have stood together on something. Man and woman. Two halves of the whole. Natural partners made enemies by conflicting ideals of higher thought, ego, and petty grudges. It would be interesting to see how and if Tat will explore that.

I've never been much of a shipper. Xanthe becoming distraught over Slick's betrayal is super on-the-nose though. How else can that kind of reaction be interpreted? She wore a pokerface but she had the hots for him then got super bummed that he simply wasn't boyfriend material. Slick failed the job interview he didn't even know he was in.
I don't think Monique and Slick were ever meant to be. He's better off anyway. That girl is way high maintenance. Haha. Come to think of it, so is Xanthe. If Slick were a real guy and I could give him advice I'd warn him to steer clear.

Now here is the catch: those e thots don't know what they're doing because they're just that-- thots. Tat may or may not have understood at the time that those men were being that subjected, no, yet maybe he was one of many of us who were blindsided by technology in general. At what point is it the robots? And what's strange to me would be the part where I broke that code and just went straight for the memes. I get my memes by perusing Chaturbate bios for free Instas and Discord servers. I don't even check porn on them and instead merely go for the meme channels and threads. Great memes, I put them on Imgur in order to gauge how viral they may be and some of them are hits. As for the Instas, I go and talk directly to the girls who are actually nice people who happened to end up in that world, and they actually will just have normal conversations with me instead of showing me their tits. They do artwork and are into various world religions and stuff. Very strange how that works. If Slick is really Slick he will get all the girls.

-Russly

Nah bruh, those e-thots aren’t victims, they know exactly what they are doing…

Feminism, woke or no, some ladies are savvy about the demand for sexual entertainment and make bank on it. Oh, the horror! The absolute audacity of these Jezebels! How dare they exploit the male libido for personal gain! I mean right, guys?! Most of these young ladies grew up in the same internet porn culture as their male counterparts and know what’s up. If you want male attention, you must become the very fantasy men watch all day and women figured how to get paid on top of it! So, true to form, these women are quickly judged but, they are living well and good on the money of their scrutinizers. Their anime dyed hair, faux cat ears, thicc thighs and ahegao face is so in demand that it can get them financial stability and empowerment. I don’t feel too bad for the men that pay the e-girls. They are paying for a service, and they are getting that service. The e-thot isn’t putting a gun to his head for his cash app. The dudes know going in they probably won’t have a chance with that e-girl any more than they had a chance with that free internet porn actress that got them through puberty.

Not to sound too cold and uncaring but if the poor men don’t want to be exploited by these e-thots, then boycott Onlyfans, Patreon, etc. Invest that money on getting therapy and self-respect. Once there is no longer a demand for it, the supply for it will wane, simple economics. The e-girls will have to stop ‘exploiting male loneliness’ to line their pockets when the well runs dry. But who are we kidding? That’s not going to happen because sex work is the oldest profession with a strong male fanbase…it’s been for thousands of years; it will be for thousands more.

CopperRose wrote: ↑

Sat May 14, 2022 5:54 pm

Nah bruh, those e-thots aren’t victims, they know exactly what they are doing…

Feminism, woke or no, some ladies are savvy about the demand for sexual entertainment and make bank on it. Oh, the horror! The absolute audacity of these Jezebels! How dare they exploit the male libido for personal gain! I mean right, guys?! Most of these young ladies grew up in the same internet porn culture as their male counterparts and know what’s up. If you want male attention, you must become the very fantasy men watch all day and women figured how to get paid on top of it! So, true to form, these women are quickly judged but, they are living well and good on the money of their scrutinizers. Their anime dyed hair, faux cat ears, thicc thighs and ahegao face is so in demand that it can get them financial stability and empowerment. I don’t feel too bad for the men that pay the e-girls. They are paying for a service, and they are getting that service. The e-thot isn’t putting a gun to his head for his cash app. The dudes know going in they probably won’t have a chance with that e-girl any more than they had a chance with that free internet porn actress that got them through puberty.

Not to sound too cold and uncaring but if the poor men don’t want to be exploited by these e-thots, then boycott Onlyfans, Patreon, etc. Invest that money on getting therapy and self-respect. Once there is no longer a demand for it, the supply for it will wane, simple economics. The e-girls will have to stop ‘exploiting male loneliness’ to line their pockets when the well runs dry. But who are we kidding? That’s not going to happen because sex work is the oldest profession with a strong male fanbase…it’s been for thousands of years; it will be for thousands more.

I can't help but feel bad for them but I have no choice but to agree that no one is really a victim here. Nor is there really a villain. People make their own choices. They're still gonna complain when those choices end up hurting them though. 'Cause people, men and women, are dumb. They're dumb. Simping men SHOULD get some self-respect. I wish they would. I wish it were possible.

Tat's radfem belief seems to be (at least last time I checked) that if men stop viewing porn and women stop providing it, a new age of mutual respect can begin. Like you said though, it's probably not ever going to happen. I can agree with Tat that the practice degrades us all. The problem is that most of these men are undatable. Unlovable. The alternative to porn for them is nothing. The abyss. That's all that awaits the unattractive and the charmless. The thin illusion that they could have the affection of a woman? Stripping it away is so cruel that I wouldn't have the heart.
Could Tat give these men an alternative? Could you? It would solve the problem. Telling them "You're bad for wanting this." Is like telling them they're bad for wanting food, water, or shelter. Wanting affection is a natural human desire. In the absence of it they are willing to pretend it's there. This terrible truth is as depressing as it is necessary for their sanity.

ZozoCitizen wrote: ↑

Sat May 14, 2022 6:59 pm

CopperRose wrote: ↑

Sat May 14, 2022 5:54 pm

Nah bruh, those e-thots aren’t victims, they know exactly what they are doing…

Feminism, woke or no, some ladies are savvy about the demand for sexual entertainment and make bank on it. Oh, the horror! The absolute audacity of these Jezebels! How dare they exploit the male libido for personal gain! I mean right, guys?! Most of these young ladies grew up in the same internet porn culture as their male counterparts and know what’s up. If you want male attention, you must become the very fantasy men watch all day and women figured how to get paid on top of it! So, true to form, these women are quickly judged but, they are living well and good on the money of their scrutinizers. Their anime dyed hair, faux cat ears, thicc thighs and ahegao face is so in demand that it can get them financial stability and empowerment. I don’t feel too bad for the men that pay the e-girls. They are paying for a service, and they are getting that service. The e-thot isn’t putting a gun to his head for his cash app. The dudes know going in they probably won’t have a chance with that e-girl any more than they had a chance with that free internet porn actress that got them through puberty.

Not to sound too cold and uncaring but if the poor men don’t want to be exploited by these e-thots, then boycott Onlyfans, Patreon, etc. Invest that money on getting therapy and self-respect. Once there is no longer a demand for it, the supply for it will wane, simple economics. The e-girls will have to stop ‘exploiting male loneliness’ to line their pockets when the well runs dry. But who are we kidding? That’s not going to happen because sex work is the oldest profession with a strong male fanbase…it’s been for thousands of years; it will be for thousands more.

I can't help but feel bad for them but I have no choice but to agree that no one is really a victim here. Nor is there really a villain. People make their own choices. They're still gonna complain when those choices end up hurting them though. 'Cause people, men and women, are dumb. They're dumb. Simping men SHOULD get some self-respect. I wish they would. I wish it were possible.

Tat's radfem belief seems to be (at least last time I checked) that if men stop viewing porn and women stop providing it, a new age of mutual respect can begin. Like you said though, it's probably not ever going to happen. I can agree with Tat that the practice degrades us all. The problem is that most of these men are undatable. Unlovable. The alternative to porn for them is nothing. The abyss. That's all that awaits the unattractive and the charmless. The thin illusion that they could have the affection of a woman? Stripping it away is so cruel that I wouldn't have the heart.
Could Tat give these men an alternative? Could you? It would solve the problem. Telling them "You're bad for wanting this." Is like telling them they're bad for wanting food, water, or shelter. Wanting affection is a natural human desire. In the absence of it they are willing to pretend it's there. This terrible truth is as depressing as it is necessary for their sanity.

We have a habit of blaming each other for our problems rather than looking inward and fixing what is wrong with us. We rather point the finger at each other, deep cut by exposing the other’s faults and flaws, gnawing at each other’s insecurities than working together to get to the root of the problem. For a few years now, our society had glorified antisocial behavior and the extreme social-political views are not helping either. The guy who wore being antisocial as a badge of honor is now simping for unobtainable e-girls because he’s lonely. Miss-Independent-who-don’t-need-no-man, is now thirst trapping men masking it as “self-love” because she’s lonely. With all this battle of the sexes going on, we still just want someone to love. I don’t have the answers to fix this, but I know it will take a lot of work on everyone’s part.

In the red-light saga, Tat showed the ugly side of sex work, and the Johns had no clue what the girls were going through. They only knew they are paying for a service. These Johns in this story seen the red-light workers as simply a product (fembot) and not a person. I can understand how some of the male readers can get put off because it was depicted as they are a part, if not the entire, problem. Male readers don’t want to be told they were wrong for patronizing sexual entertainment. That sex has taken human element from these women, and they are the equivalent of used tissue. But let’s face it, I doubt men would ask the woman they just bought, the dancer they just tipped or the porn star at a convention if they were doing it because they wanted to or being forced to (and most sex workers aren’t expecting them to either). It never crosses the Johns’ mind, and you can’t fault them for that. They just know they are paying for something, and that demand is being fulfilled.

In hindsight, I wish one of the random Johns stumbled upon what was happening behind the scenes and thought “Oh balls, I’m contributing to this girl’s misery, let me blow the whistle.” Yes, yes, Tat painted that all the men are cheating, exploiting lunks who are flippant to the plight of women, but what would have happened if the truth smacked them upside the head? How would some of the Johns react? Would he try to help, boycott, or continue like business as usual? That was what I was waiting for in that arc and it never happened. Just that dudes are too ignorant to understand they are harming women without a solution to stop this ignorance. Other than “stop watching porn” like that’s ever going to happen.

Edit: I wanted to add that as someone who used to be an exotic dancer. I can honestly say it never crossed my mind that some of the guys coming in was just looking for a crumb of affection, that they were struggling with being un-datable or unloved. I was just trying to get paid. But you know, sometimes a guy would say I made his day or that he was going through something, and I helped get his mind off it, it would make me smile. Not because of the money but because I helped someone through something. Re-reading what you wrote kind of put a new perspective on it. I don’t know if sex workers are alternative for men who can’t find affection for one reason or another. Like the e-thots, we are the game to get paid, its a job, so our attention is only temporary. Again, I wish I had the answers for this but, I like I said it will take a lot of work, self-love, self-respect, working on the depression and so forth.

Very true. Strongly agree. The irony is that we have so little power to change others but nigh infinite capacity to change ourselves. Yet almost all our problems are self-created.
I don't have the answers either as much as I criticize Tat and others for pecking away at societies issues without offering alternatives. I freely admit that. It's definitely important to criticize the critics though, if you ask me. People need mirrors held up in front of them. They need to see themselves as they truly are and only other people can give them that. It's far too easy to lie to ourselves.
I may not agree with Tat's depiction of men most of the time but he always gave me something to think about. Which is never a bad thing. It is, however, possible to go too far and become obnoxiously preachy. Thereby driving away the people you're trying to reach. Every character has a piece of their creator in them. I think Seymour might have more of Tat in him than at first meets the eye.

That's a very interesting suggestion about showing sympathetic Johns. Tat seems to want to believe that men are redeemable... but never says why or how. Except perhaps some nebulous non-specific notion of respecting women. Just respect them. That's all you need, right?
What would a John do if he saw behind the curtain and discovered how unhappy the handmaidens are? I guess it depends on the man. Slick, for example, would probably be troubled by what he saw. He does have a heart. Would he *do* anything? Hard to say. Slick has become very passive over the years. He tried to be a hero somewhat recently but Tat slapped him down to drive home how irrelevant he is and how problematic it would be for him, a man, to actually do anything to help a woman. They don't need his filthy help. They're powerful and independent! Except when they're not. What a catch-22. The game is rigged. Slick can't win. Poor bastard.

We're all trying to get paid and make it through the week. Men and women. I'm glad something I said struck a chord with you. Hearing about your experiences made coming back to this forum totally worth it just for that. I truly believe in my theory about men simply wanting love. I mean, sure, lust is a part of it. Lust is the other side of the coin. Those two elements of human desire for connection and affection go hand in hand. Doesn't mean it's evil. I really don't like the notion that men (or anyone really) is 'just evil' and that's why they do harmful things. That's absurd. Absolutely absurd. There are reasons for everything and a little understanding can go a long way.

There is the Simpsons episode where Kirk simps a whole brothel for emotional fulfillment after all. Anyway yeah I guess there's the untold demographic of women who are unattractive by all standards which I guess is a group that might hide behind computer screens in much the same way the male World Of Warcraft fans do. It's less about the sex of a person in that way, and more about what type of cultures exist now. It's a great question as to what people on each side of the battle of the sexes overlook in this modern age. Certainly Slick has faced much of this with Sleaze and now Nique with her shadow. The female Johnbies are still a relatively new phenomenon, much to be explored. You got to watch out for the "make a man's day a little better" metanarrative just because nowadays tech exploits even that unfortunately. It's true, but too true and so only applies in the non technological context perhaps.

Also we got to watch some Time Squad in honor of today's strip. Throw ya Blendin' Blandin' reference in there. Maybe some Jetsons, sprinkle a little Futurama on top.

-Russly