ZozoCitizen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:56 am
Is it? I don't think it's subjective at all. Kids. Little kids: the age group who watch Spongebob, believe in Santa Claus, and accept anything their parents tell them with wide-eyed trust? They need to be protected. I strongly believe that.
You just proved my point. This is exactly what subjectivity is. Don't get me wrong, I agree that they should indeed be protected, but the age group you are talking about is influenced more and more heavily by outside influences than at any time in our history... When I was growing up my country had 4 TV channels, now there are over 100, and thats just the terrestrial broadcast and doesnt include all the cable or satellite channels you have nowadays. There was no such thing as internet. There was no such thing as tablets or mobile phones. There were no 'apps' aimed at providing 'kid friendly entertainment' all while heavily marketing or advertising their products, or worse - providing 'interactive safe spaces' for them to engage with each other...until they unwittingly interact with someone who has lied about how young they are on such an app and well lets stop there before I make myself sick just thinking about it. In any case the subjectiveness I was referring to is
how one goes about protecting such individuals.
ZozoCitizen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:56 am
The proposal that an education in sexuality and gender is in the best interests of these children hinges on the teachers who would implement these new standards. Teachers who have pretty much all shown themselves to be activists in disguise. They aren't doing this to help anyone. Except themselves, I guess. It's a bad joke to suggest it's for the benefit of the kids. What a load of baloney. I have zero faith in the moral motivations of these egotistical buffoons. Their behavior has destroyed all credibility.
Firstly, way to paint the whole with the actions of a conspicuous few, as I can't countenance that it is in truth "pretty much all" teachers are activists as you so claim. Moreover, I can only assume that this must be an Americanised viewpoint which I freely admit I do not have first hand knowledge of myself, but speaking from my own experience where for the most part we embrace multiculturism and diversity, there is still a huge stigma around any sort of talk, even *acknowledgment* about sex and gender issues until they are covered in class because that way our kids are safe right? Wrong.
Second, you assume that the only educators in this situation would be ones in a schooling establishment - there are moms/dads/legal guardians in the family environment that are already automatically trusted - as you admit to in your opening line - who should be more than capable of providing such education. I am not just talking about birds and bees talk, I also include responsibility in allowing and encouraging a safe environment that destigmatizes discourse on these subjects, when they occur organically of course. Kids aren't stupid: if you turn the TV over or off when some unanticipated adult sitution is shown or inferred when you were clearly engaged with it before, or if you break away sheepishly if they walk in on you during some of the milder forms of intimacy when you thought they were asleep or otherwise engaged, then of course they are going to be inquisitive, the question is how do you deal with it?
ZozoCitizen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:56 am
Let's address the actual line of thought though. Unless you're arguing the other side purely for the sake of debate, you apparently believe in the benefit that children could have from uh... I guess what you'd call preteen sex-ed. Ugh just typing it makes me feel gross. It's a repulsive concept. You know, I'm really trying to be fair minded about this. It's not easy. The bottom line is I don't believe that kids learning about sexuality or identity is a good thing. They don't need that junk. In fact I think it's harmful because they should be playing and having fun. Having a childhood. Instead you'd have them see everyone they know and depend on as a potential 'abuser'. No child needs that kind of paranoia. Under the guise of teaching them to protect themselves, you'd turn them against their loved ones. That's what I see. Propaganda and fear mongering. Targeting children! We've reached a new low.
A school friend of mine while we were walking home (yes this is from a time when it was normal for kids to make their own way back from school) out of the blue started talking to me about clearly sexual themes. While we were out playing alone on the street they would sometimes flash themselves at me deliberately. On a couple of occasions they invited me inside their house after school while their parents were still away at work and flat out asked me to engage in sex with them. I didn't understand, and when I asked them what they meant, it was clear they understood enough about the mechanics or had at least had a basic knowledge but they didn't properly understand either. "lets get naked and lie on each other" was pretty much what the explanation, and well, the actions we took, boiled down to. It wasnt sex, but thinking back now it is clear to me that they must have been exposed to at the very least, things beyond their capability to understand, or mine. This was
years before sex ed, and I was left totally confused for all that time: I didn't feel I could talk to my parents (or anyone else for that matter) about it, nor did I because it all felt dirty - secretive - shameful...
I only hope that they weren't the victim of direct abuse themselves but clearly a sexualisation had occured, and I was a secondary victim. I distinctly remember other points in my childhood that only have understanding now that I am an adult: Sexual graffiti on public restroom doors, phone numbers promising a good time etc, even sexually explicit stories "shared" on cubicle walls (God it makes me feel sick remembering). Pornographic magazines discarded in park bushes discovered when retrieving a wayward sports ball. And all of this before an age when literally anything can be beamed into a little square piece of glass carried around in your pocket, at your command, at the suggestion of the most innocent of inquiries in a search engine, at the mere disabling of a 'safesearch' switch. I remember teaching my folks how to operate the VCR like it was the most intuitive thing on earth, nowadays kids are doing that with their phones. they know how to get around things if they look hard enough.
I am not looking for sympathy - I am a grown adult with an adult life and I have learned to get over it, but the young me who had to go through a hell of a lot before they even got to high school just wishes that they had been brought up in a time where they didn't feel like they would be shouted at for asking stupid disgusting questions or to get those stupid ideas out of their head about men and women and sit down and watch their saturday morning cartoon show.
Yes, don't shove it down their throats, no I am not asking for pre-teen sex-ed, but if you cant 100% shield them with absolute certainty all the time, then at least let them know they can ask you about anything at all, be approchable, and always seem supportive, because it isn't just paranoia and fear mongering. It happens, has always happened and will keep happening that minors will stumble upon things not intended for them and they need to know the right answers before they go and make mistakes finding out for themselves.