August 20, 2018: Demand 21

[Z6IIAB]

LOOOLLL

Thanks, Tat, for going there. People need to stop saying men don't get a positive portrayal on sinfest.

Because they need to stop thinking it's normal for men to buy sex and exploit women and children in exchange.

[Z6IIAB]

tbh, Tat himself is a positive portrayal of men. And he's a real man, not a fictional character. I think people fail to see that.

[Miramise]

I know it's a strip, but it feels a little to close to RL. Scary.

[Rogue Kitty]

Because they need to stop thinking it's normal for men to buy sex and exploit women and children in exchange.

I'm a female survivor of very young childhood exploitation, by my mother of all people, starting before I was even school age. Luckily, someone intervened early and I escaped any permanent physical damage. I've gone on to have a mostly normal life, including having three beautiful children and, after two false starts, finally finding a relationship I could tolerate for 20 years and counting.

Not all exploited children are so lucky, nor or they female. We seem to be conveniently forgetting that a large quantity of the exploited children that grow up to be exploited adults are male. Does that portion of exploited children stop mattering when they go through puberty just because they have XY chromosomes? As a mother of two sons, even as a radfem, I just can't do that. How many of those supposedly straight "family men" johnbies have gone "shopping" in the red light district or online for those exploited men who used to be exploited children?

My role as a woman and as a feminist includes my role as a mother. My role as a mother doesn't stop just because my children are adults. Our role of fighting for exploited children shouldn't stop for a portion of them at puberty just because of their chromosomes, they're still our exploited children and deserve to be protected.

[Z6IIAB]

Idk where did you get I wasn't including men just because I didn't mention them, since they are not the majority of exploited people in that horrible industry. C'mon, rogue kitty, don't go "what about the menz?" on me, I was just warming up to you.

Plus, like you said:

If they don't want to be portrayed as assholes, they shouldn't act like assholes.

[Rogue Kitty]

Idk where did you get I wasn't including men just because I didn't mention them, since they are not the majority of exploited people in that horrible industry.

I think the misunderstanding is pretty self-explanatory since, as you yourself say, you didn't mention them, but I apologize for the misunderstanding anyway. I won't however, apologize for standing up for our exploited children who not only slipped through the cracks, but evidently went through puberty with the "wrong" chromosomes to be actively mentioned.

C'mon, rogue kitty, don't go "what about the menz?" on me, I was just warming up to you.

Plus, like you said:

If they don't want to be portrayed as assholes, they shouldn't act like assholes.

I'm a Bitch First Class and I fight against the assholes with every breath. Trying to use my quote against me when I'm standing up for abused and exploited male children who had the misfortune to slip through the cracks and become abused and exploited adults doesn't help your argument. They may be male, but they aren't the assholes. They're VICTIMS of the assholes.

[Z6IIAB]

Idk where did you get I wasn't including men just because I didn't mention them, since they are not the majority of exploited people in that horrible industry.

I think the misunderstanding is pretty self-explanatory since, as you yourself say, you didn't mention them, but I apologize for the misunderstanding anyway. I won't however, apologize for standing up for our exploited children who not only slipped through the cracks, but evidently went through puberty with the "wrong" chromosomes to be actively mentioned.

C'mon, rogue kitty, don't go "what about the menz?" on me, I was just warming up to you.

Plus, like you said:

If they don't want to be portrayed as assholes, they shouldn't act like assholes.

I'm a Bitch First Class and I fight against the assholes with every breath. Trying to use my quote against me when I'm standing up for abused and exploited male children who had the misfortune to slip through the cracks and become abused and exploited adults doesn't help your argument. They may be male, but they aren't the assholes. They're VICTIMS of the assholes.

Jfc, take a chill pill. I'm with you when it comes to fighting for a better world where children aren't prey to evil adults. But for real: take a chill pill. I was not all up your ass, I never spoke against exploited men and children, and you came at me like I killed someone in your family.

take.
a.
chill.
pill.

I'm ignoring you if you keep on being savage for no reason. I have a limit for bullshit.

[Rogue Kitty]

Jfc, take a chill pill. I'm with you when it comes to fighting for a better world where children aren't prey to evil adults. But for real: take a chill pill. I was not all up your ass, I never spoke against exploited men and children, and you came at me like I killed someone in your family.

take.
a.
chill.
pill.

I'm ignoring you if you keep on being savage for no reason. I have a limit for bullshit.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to remember that tone and intent don't always translate well in text.

Let me break things down a little for you so that maybe you can understand why I ripped into you.

I quoted you in my first post where you said,

Because they need to stop thinking it's normal for men to buy sex and exploit women and children in exchange.

and I stood up to defend the exploited children that grow up to be exploited adults that happen to be male, because I couldn't read your mind and had no way to know if you included them because you didn't say so originally.

Your response to me after that came off as very sarcastic,

C'mon, rogue kitty, don't go "what about the menz?" on me, I was just warming up to you.

right up until the point where you quoted me from another thread and sounded like you were blaming the victims and turning them into the enemy we fight against every day.

Plus, like you said:

If they don't want to be portrayed as assholes, they shouldn't act like assholes.

I don't react well to sarcasm or blaming the victim when it comes to sexual exploitation or abuse.

I too have a limit for bullshit.

[B19Y44]

This I suppose is often where the line gets tricky and people start picking sides.

The unfortunate fact is that abuse survivors can all too easily become abusers. The child or teen who is molested but never receives help to cope with what happened to them often turns into the next link in a chain of abuse.

Even with other forms of abuse this happens. Someone raised in a violent home sees violence as the way to make their way in the world if not shown differently. Someone raised with asshole parents who are racist, sexist, elitist, etc, learn how to be just like mom and dad unless something else stops it.

Many people live their lives the only way they know how, the only way the experienced it. Does it excuse the abuse, violence and poor treatment they spread in their way? Absolutely not. But acting like victim and victimizer are mutually exclusive is not a useful tactic in the long run. That's how the American prison system is run, and it's a failure. If there is no intent to help someone improve, it doesn't matter how right one may be about what a terrible person someone else is.

Edit: I could swear I spellchecked this thing...

[Rogue Kitty]

The unfortunate fact is that abuse survivors can all too easily become abusers.

I'm only defending those sexually exploited children that grow up to be sexually exploited adults. Those that are still either pimped out or pimp themselves out sexually for money because they've been taught that that's all they're good for. They've been told that they're damaged goods and no one will ever want them for anything else and in many cases they've gotten hooked on drugs either by their pimp or just to cope and it starts a vicious circle.

I have a zero tolerance policy for rapists and child molesters, I think they should all face a firing squad composed of survivors with good aim. I have no desire to spend tax dollars to house and feed them, thanks. Yes, I know that we still have some idiots making false rape claims, and even some people getting wrongfully convicted, so my plan isn't realistic, but I can still dream.

As for those victims that go on to become abusers, I tend to get doubly angry, because they damn well know what kind of damage they're doing to their victims. You mention that those that don't get help often become abusers, but I've known and known of some that did get help and still went on to abuse as well as some that never got help that didn't. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. It may be that there's something in the human brain that we just haven't unlocked yet, who the hell knows.

[B19Y44]

There certainly is still a great deal we do not know about the human psyche, factors that cannot yet be quantified and which may never be fully understood.

You are correct on the fact that some abuse survivors turn into abusers even with adequate care and some who survive abuse are strong enough to break the cycle on their own.

It's a good deal like serial killers. There are different factors that seem to go into creating one, but there is no sure rhyme or reason to it. Common factors include abuse as well as head injury or brain conditions, but for every serial killer with one or both of these factors, there are thousands who suffer from such and become nothing out of the ordinary.

I personally like to think there is a chance for redemption for everyone, but I cannot deny that even if that is true, some people may simply be too damaged by their past to have any statistically realistic chance (to say nothing of the cost in resources) of correcting themselves...or even living with themselves. In the case of murderer's, many who do receive some degree of help and feel true remorse for their actions quite often take their own lives because the act of taking another life takes something from them in the process.

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

There certainly is still a great deal we do not know about the human psyche, factors that cannot yet be quantified and which may never be fully understood.

We cannot see what another thinks. We only see what they do. And what they do will always matter more than what they think or say.

We get enculturated into the cycle of our upbringing. It takes a lot to ‘wake’ up into a larger reality. Not everyone will wake. Potential is a very endearing and very horrible thing. I have wasted quite a lot of energy on those who have potential but who never wake.

The most important thing is to protect those being exploited who are the least capable of protecting themselves. To me that order is children, women and then men. If we don’t adequately protect the children they will grow into the victimized women and men and also have a greater risk of promoting the very cycle of abuse that harmed them.

It is a horrible truth that it is a minority of people who go from being abused to actually abusing others. Most just become passively accepting of the abuse of others or of themselves. A few become champions and fight against it. A few become abusers - but it only takes a few to do a great harm. Most abusers have multiple victims.

When you have limited resources you budget. Money, time, focus, etc. it is easier to think in a big picture way, but our actions are local.

It is easy for us to misunderstand each other but I think most are saying the same thing. We are just tense because of the subject matter and willing to throw down these typed words.